Belittlement of men

Feminist ideology and the effect it has had upon society
About this forum
This is an example of one thread - Feminism - which has recently been turned into its own subforum. Thus we are currently breaking that very interesting, but very long, thread into sub-discussions where appropriate. This will leave the original thread with a lot of views while the new threads will apparently have fewer. They'll begin to catch up though.

Belittlement of men

Postby Elliott » 30 Mar 2012, 03:12

Last year, IKEA ran an experiment in Australia allowing female shoppers to "drop off" their men in a recreational area in the store called "Manland", where each man would be able to watch sport on a plasmascreen, play table football, and eat hot dogs, whilst his spouse went around the store.

The idea is that a) men don't have to suffer shopping for furniture and discussing with their wives which colour of sofa to buy, and b) women don't have to put up with a "whinging" husband as they wonder which colour of sofa to buy.



As with their creche facility, IKEA gives each woman a buzzer which will alert her to come and "pick up" her husband after 30 minutes.

What do people think about this?
Elliott
 
Posts: 1800
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 22:32
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Darian » 30 Mar 2012, 04:33

Elliott, I'm usually not one to speak ill of the recently deceased, but that woman looks like Cliff Robertson. Just about confirms my suspicion that most hardcore feminists seek to be men. It's interesting how diehard feminists seem to completely lack femininity.

As for that IKEA "manland", It seems rather silly to me and I would never take part in anything like that myself. I find it disquieting that these men seem genuinely happy to be emasculated like that, and don't seem to object in the slightest to being treated like children. Just listen to the way that IKEA Representative talks about them, one can imagine outrage if one spoke of treating women like helpless children with limited attention spans.

I guess it's silly on my part to get worked up over something as harmless as this IKEA manland (I definitely don't want to be some kind of reverse feminist, outraged at every perceived slight towards men), but the whole thing seems a little insulting.
Darian
 
Posts: 71
Joined: 29 Oct 2011, 01:25

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Rachel » 30 Mar 2012, 06:55

There's a kind of infantilisation happening there.
Can you imagine men in the 1950's or 70's playing those games and not taking at least a financial interest for furniture purchased in their own house.

It is true that men hate shopping. My Mother and I have to drag my Dad out to buy clothes when he has too but I can not imagine him or anyone of his generation (1950's-70's) in that sort of childish playpen.

Does this infantilisation has something to do with feminism ?
If so than how?
Rachel
 
Posts: 292
Joined: 03 Aug 2011, 10:14
Location: Israel

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Elliott » 30 Mar 2012, 21:54

Rachel wrote:Does this infantilisation has something to do with feminism ?


I think it links to feminism in two ways.

1. It infantilises men, putting women and men in the respective positions of "responsible adult" and "lump". As Darian said, if the roles were reversed there would be outrage. Specifically the thing about a buzzer to remind the woman to collect her man - this is an unnecessary thing and, though added jokingly, is done so purely to have a laugh at men. I can live with it, but it does irritate me to think that the situation could never be reversed without a national media furore.

2. It acknowledges that men cannot be fully feminised. Even after 40 years of PC, men still aren't interested in home furnishing or decorating or shopping (in the sense of wandering around a store with no game plan). It also acknowledges that the things men do like are not feminine at all: watching sport on TV and competing with each other in table football, while eating rubbishy fast food. There's an honesty about all this which suggests "post-feminist".

On the other hand, it grants to men only the most base forms of masculinity. Where, for example, is the chess board in Manland? Where are the books on history and philosophy? Where's the thesaurus that a guy can leaf through randomly? Where's the graph paper he can plan his garden shed on while his wife takes care of the sofa business? No, there's none of that. It's just keeping them occupied, like animals, with food and sport. I can believe that lots of men, perhaps most men, would be happy in Manland, but I wouldn't want to set foot in it.

Having said all that, I do think that it's a good idea, in a sense. Most men I know loathe and dread shopping with their wives. You could look at Manland as a pragmatic way to solve this problem.

And if we're being honest, it is also clearly a bit of humour. It's a joke. It's amusing, precisely because it does solve the problem.

But the price of it is that men are further demoted from "head of the household" to "household idiot" - or to put it more alliteratively, from champ to chump. Or even chimp.

I find it hard to imagine feminism allowing a similar thing for women. Say, a hardware store with a Womanland (it would probably be called Chick World or some such) where women could read beauty magazines, gaze at posters of George Clooney, exchange make-up tips, and discuss with each other their emotional problems over a latte. If Halfords were to create such a place, people would be outraged that it was stereotyping women. The store would get busted by an equalities SWAT team.
Elliott
 
Posts: 1800
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 22:32
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Rachel » 31 Mar 2012, 04:50

Yes, you're right. That makes sense.
I thought there might be a connection between feminism and that but I couldn't put my finger on it.
Good point about how there was no grown up things like chessboard or books.
Rachel
 
Posts: 292
Joined: 03 Aug 2011, 10:14
Location: Israel

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Caleb » 02 Apr 2012, 02:26

I agree with all of the points made so far.

I hate shopping as much as the next guy. Recently, we bought some new appliances. The prospect of looking at washing machines didn't exactly arouse great enthusiasm in me, but I didn't just let my wife deal with it while I went off and played X-Box games or something of the sort. I was right in there comparing different washing machines and haggling with the employee over price when we'd made our minds up. That men have so willingly emasculated themselves is shocking.

If not for the above, I might go to Manland, but only so I could perhaps meet some other guys (though meeting guys who like football or table football wouldn't particularly appeal to me). If they did have a chessboard or some books there, I'd be even more inclined to go simply because I could meet the kind of guys I would even be interested in.

Analogous to Manland is the whole modern concept of the man cave. I know to some extent, men used to have the shed/garage/workshop, or maybe even the den, and maybe the rest of the house was always the woman's domain. Maybe it's merely acknowledging that, so it's a good thing. On the other hand, there is something about the modern man cave that is infantile. It's infantile even how the men involved often view the man cave, how they decorate it, etc. My grandfather had his shed/workshop, and that was very much his domain, but the difference seemed to be that it was a serious place. It's where he made things or fixed things. It was inherently utile in nature, and therefore, inherently valuable and valued. It was not a place where you'd let a five year old run around, and indeed, a five year old wouldn't even have wanted to be in there. It wasn't a giant sandpit, unlike the man cave. Manland is merely the man cave made public.
Caleb
 
Posts: 865
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 04:44

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Gavin » 26 Jun 2012, 15:47

This is how it works - it's insidious.



There won't be a whisper about it, of course, because men are supposed to "take it". But what if it was reversed?
Gavin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 18:13
Location: Once Great Britain

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Gavin » 31 Jan 2013, 16:55

Feminist reporter Emma Barnett brings us news of an app for women to "train their boyfriends". Of course, any such app for men would be prohibited by Apple. One wonders when breaking point will come.
Gavin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 18:13
Location: Once Great Britain

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Gavin » 24 Feb 2013, 16:51

It wouldn't be a BBC Radio 4 interview unless it ended with a belittling comment about men:

Male guest, on Open Book:

"I think WHSmith are in strong position, a lot of people are travelling now and they're well placed for this - people tend to buy books when they travel."


Mariella Frostrup (presenter):

"Well, men do. Women bring them with them."


According to Wikipedia:

Frostrup's political views have been described as "a bit left-of-centre"...


No! This, from a BBC interviewer?

She has been... campaigning for women’s rights and gender equality has become her main focus... She created, along with 3 other trustees, the Gender Rights and Equality Action Trust. This foundation aims at fostering gender equality and raising awareness and funds, to support grass roots gender equality projects in Africa and beyond.


With a CV like that she is fit for immediate promotion within the Beeb I would have thought.
Gavin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 18:13
Location: Once Great Britain

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Elliott » 24 Feb 2013, 17:08

My first thought, Gavin, was that it is such a trivial comment that you were being too sensitive. But then I realised that an equally trivial comment about women, made by a man, would never be broadcast!
Elliott
 
Posts: 1800
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 22:32
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Gavin » 24 Feb 2013, 17:47

Well that's just the thing, Elliott. I suppose it wouldn't matter if such banter was deemed acceptable either way (perhaps despite that comment being, I think, groundless). But, had a man said the exact same thing about women (even if this did tend to be true), Frostrup would most probably have replied with "That's very sexist!". Yet, had this interviewee objected in that vein, he would have been accused of being unable to take a joke etc.

Such are the double standards of feminism.
Gavin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 18:13
Location: Once Great Britain

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Caleb » 25 Feb 2013, 00:59

It's a weird joke anyway. I suppose her point is that women bring books with them because they're more intelligent than the men who don't. Yet if reading a book is the criterion there, it doesn't actually matter where or when the book was bought, just that the book gets read. What a silly comment.

In fact, we could twist it around and say that the man who waited until he got to his destination to buy the book was smarter because he didn't have to lug it around with him beforehand. Shock horror, but places other than the ones we're from have things like books. Some even also have other things you can buy like toothbrushes, clothes or even (and you won't believe this, but it really is true)...food. Imagine that! The ingenuity of people to think of such things just for tourists! Anyway, it's just a completely non-sensical point. We don't even know if it's true that women do bring books with them and men buy them when they get there. Even if it is true, there could be any number of quite sensible reasons for doing either.
Caleb
 
Posts: 865
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 04:44

Re: Feminism

Postby Gavin » 25 Feb 2013, 01:54

Good analysis there. Of course, they trade on the fact that the male guest cannot come back with all of this at the time.
Gavin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 18:13
Location: Once Great Britain

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Gavin » 13 Mar 2013, 11:32

I heard a government advert on the radio about food wastage - people buying too much and throwing half of it away. It was a woman's voice, an actress:

Woman: "I get the right amount of food. He goes and buys far too much and throws half of it away!"

Man: "Duh.."

Woman: "I keep telling him..." etc. etc.


Again we see the infantilising of men and we simply have to ask whether this advert could have been reversed. I dare say it would then be widely regarded as insulting to women, implying they eat too much, do not know how to buy food, etc. (which will be, of course, in some cases true). The thing is, women are treated with kid gloves, as minorities are in our society now, when actually they are a majority. It's another "ism".
Gavin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 18:13
Location: Once Great Britain

Re: Belittlement of men

Postby Andreas » 07 Jun 2013, 16:18

A few nights ago there was a discussion on television here in the U.S. about Obama's appointment of Susan Rice as the National Security Advisor. The discussants, one man, one woman, have both worked in policy planning in the U.S. Department of State. It was a rational discussion until the very end, when the woman discussant, Anne-Marie Slaughter, couldn't resist playing the gender and diversity card and making an irrelevant ad hominem jab at the man, Richard Haass.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/world/ja ... 06-05.html

JUDY WOODRUFF: And just finally, to both of you.

Richard Haass, what do these appointments say about the president?

RICHARD HAASS: Well, I think what it says is that here he is in his second term, he doesn't face another election, that he essentially wants to have around him the people who he knows best, who he has worked with as a senator, as a campaigner, as president.

These are not outsiders, anything but. This is -- if anything, this is a narrowing or tightening of the national security team at the White House.

JUDY WOODRUFF: You worked in the Obama administration. How do you see that, this narrowing of the team?

ANNE-MARIE SLAUGHTER: Only a man can say this is the narrowing of the team. This is adding two important women to key positions in the White House in a way that I actually think is very important.

These are more diverse voices right there. And, actually, although they do all know each other, I think there's a broader range of views with Susan Rice and Samantha Power, with many of the other people who are in the White House. And I think we're going to see that make a difference.


If Mr. Haass were black, Asian, or Hispanic, I doubt she would have dared make that remark.
Andreas
 
Posts: 195
Joined: 04 Sep 2012, 22:31

Next

Return to Feminism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

User Menu

Login Form

This site costs £100 per year to run and makes no money.

If you would like to make a small contribution to help pay for the web hosting, you can do so here.

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 175 on 12 Jan 2015, 18:23

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
Copyright © Western Defence. All Rights Reserved.