Care in the community

Thoughts on the welfare state and the British underclass

Re: Care in the community

Postby Paul » 17 Jun 2014, 00:30

Yessica: Goodness I never thought of crime at all when I read of your husband's affliction, but of course I don't think he's mentally ill or unstable. I might say he is quirky, but in an unfortunate way.

A few people do have phobias I know. Boys tend to laugh at them (other boys) and say 'get over it'. They would tend to sympathise in varying degrees with the phobias of girls. Well at least that was in my day. Inevitably the general attitude has persisted into adulthood. If I saw your husband exhibit his phobia and it is indeed quite bad I would of course be concerned but nonetheless perplexed.

I would be so concerned I would never give him drugs in an attempt to correct it. It sounds alarming. You don't know what he's taking and neither do the health 'professionals' (sigh). You've no idea they will work at all. There are the inevitable nasty side-effects. You've no idea about the long-term effects. You would probably admit that it's a bit of a guinea-pig situation. If these drugs don't work, how about we try some more, and then some more.....?

Are the pills depressing his heart-rate do you think? Does that sound good to you? Are they maybe narcotic or otherwise intoxicating and are thus distracting him? Do they make him drowsy? I can't see any positives here.

And do you really believe they are the wonder-drug for all kind of ills? Of course you don't, you've said as much here.

Neither do you really trust the advice of so-called counsellors, and particularly the extremely creepy and Soviet-like technique of 'assisted memories'. I completely agree with you. The whole business is frightening.

What's wrong with homespun wisdom and the support, encouragement and advice of family and friends? I would do anything before taking chemical medication for something so nebulous (and a lot more concrete stuff besides). It sounds a bit of a hippy alternative but I would say that Yoga, Meditation and breathing techniques have actually proven to be therapeutic. It's not something I have ever done, but it's not something I have had to do by necessity.

I don't know about defining mental illness. It's no doubt comprehensive. Self-harm seems an obvious clue. Harming others is a possibility, although it remains simultaneously criminal. Over-diagnosis and playing the Mental Health card' seems obvious and is enacted to avoid the implications of the purely criminal.

To be honest, if one doesn't harm oneself directly or others in any way, then I'm not sure we should diagnose mental illness. People have all kind of strange views and quirks. What about believing in supernatural beings who live in the sky? Are those people wholly sane?

Once you start narrowing the definitions of what is 'normal', outside criminal actions (or criminalising all kinds of once normal things), the the route to totalitarianism is established. Thought Crime comes into this category. Hate Speech is another. Anxiety in crowds might escape the eye of the despots however.


I'm surprised that you know lots (many) men who are anxious in crowds. This is surely a new phenomena? Think of yesteryear and men in the military. They would have to be used to crowds. What about football matches in stadia full of people? What about labour-intensive industry with mass employment? I've never known any man, or woman either, who is anxious in crowds.


The friend of mine was unfortunately entangled with a woman, who, with the aid of drink, drugs and eventually 'psych medication', was finally 'sectioned' (British term for committed to low-level secure hospital wing as a resident) by a psychiatrist. Her antics were to my mind (and his) purely immoral and criminal but this behaviour eventually corroded her spirit (we may say) so much that she went nuts. It's no surprise at all. Before the committal (though there was more than one), there were threats of suicide, murder and real committed assaults, damage and also eventually, direct self-harm. It was like Fatal Attraction, but worse! So over the course of several years he had much experience of the Community Mental Health Team and their treatments and policies. He's also quite savvy about all kinds of drugs, prescribed or otherwise.

I don't know what SSRIs or NaSSAs are? Of course I could Google. I don't know that my friend knows either, but I could ask him.

I've been assaulted, though not very seriously (but it could have been) by more than one woman, and on several occasions over long years. I'm no longer apprehensive, ashamed or pensive about saying this because I've come to realise (we all have) that very many men of my generation have also been assaulted by women and more than once. I've been assaulted enough for blood to flow. There, I've said it!

Conversely, I've only been once assaulted by a male, aside from a scant few (less than five) schoolboy brawls and petty fights. Aged about twenty I was once punched in the face (just the once) by a bouncer outside a Manchester city centre bar, for no reason. There was no long term damage.

I've not been robbed strictly speaking, as having suffered the crime of Robbery (direct theft from the person, mugging, etc). I have however had premises burgled, once at home and several times at work. I've also had assets stolen, including more than one vehicle. I've suffered Criminal Damage that is legion, over 30 years and more. I can't begin to list it. I've been the victim of at least 50 crimes, probably far more. In fact definitely more.

I live in Britain!
Paul
 
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Joined: 02 Aug 2011, 11:37
Location: Lancashire, England.

Re: Care in the community

Postby Paul » 17 Jun 2014, 01:53

Lindsey: The story about your brother-in-law is incredible. I can't understand that at all. I have however known of possibly similar cases, one the partly-estranged brother of a friend and others by local knowledge. I have never got too close to them, but I did hear of my friend's (elder) brother quite a bit. Here's one thing I discerned and had somewhat confirmed: That in the presence of an inflexible and no-nonsense scrutiny (the 'sane' brother), the mental health 'issues' of the afflicted brother diminished remarkably. He became virtually 'sane'. He was apprehensive of showing his weakness and was thus able to control it.

I still don't get the pills. You admit they are terrible things - but only if you don't need them. How do the pills know whether they are needed or not? They seem remarkably selective. Do they really just dove-tail neatly into someone's problems (provided they exist), neither too little nor too much (or is there much fiddling with dosage?) and achieve such a perfect job that is otherwise impossible?

I know of course that it isn't the pills doing the selecting, it's the body deciding on its need for the pills. But how can something be so benign on the one hand, but so terrible on the other, merely according to need? It's a cure (or a lid on it) but when it's not a cure it's a poison. This seems completely incongruous.

And what if someone has problems and is taking the pills and is then suddenly cured? Or do the pills never effect a cure? Let's say they do and thus the patient no longer needs the pills. Do they then take on their darker and damaging aspect?

Maybe this is the case with all drugs. I don't know, I'm not a pharmacist or doctor.

I'm sorry to sound so flippant, but my credulity is stretched to the limit. I think we can safely say that once one begins taking these pills (and a good many others besides) one will find that the patient will be taking them for the rest of their life. In that case there is no cure effected as such. As Jim Goad says, can you think of one person with mental health issues who has ever been cured, or improved by psychiatric diagnosis or medication?

Maybe you have in the case of your B-in L.
Paul
 
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Joined: 02 Aug 2011, 11:37
Location: Lancashire, England.

Re: Care in the community

Postby Yessica » 17 Jun 2014, 08:04

deleted by Yessica
Yessica
 
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Re: Care in the community

Postby Lindsey » 17 Jun 2014, 08:08

I've not time to write a detailed post at the minute but Paul, but pills basically increase or reduce neurotransmitters in the brain, hopefully back to levels of the general populace. If you did not have fluxes of dopamine to begin with taking something to
Increase dopamine wouldn't do you any good. Like I said, the core of this conversation seems to be that you imagine it impossible to lose conscious control over your thoughts. But psychedelics work by also tweaking neurotransmitters, usually just one, and a minuscule amount, and you can see a person lose touch with reality completely in a way that mirrors schizophrenic thought in just a few minutes after taking one. Some mental illness (the real kinds) are almost a naturally produced state of psychedelic thinking. You seem to be speaking from a point of view of general assumption, and to say it straight, ignorance is not a point of view , if this is a subject you want to explore you need to meet and work with people with severe mental health issues. Like I said I appreciate there is a lot of over diagnosis and victim hood in mental health, but the presence of this issue does not irradiate the fact that the brain really can malfunction to quite significant degrees.
Lindsey
 
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Re: Care in the community

Postby Lindsey » 17 Jun 2014, 08:11

If your assumptions are correct you also to explain autism in behavioural rather than neurological terms .
Lindsey
 
Posts: 75
Joined: 27 Sep 2013, 07:29

Re: Care in the community

Postby Paul » 05 Jul 2014, 17:16

Lindsey wrote:If your assumptions are correct you also to explain autism in behavioural rather than neurological terms .



Sorry Lindsey, I will get back to this. Just been away and then too busy.

Just to say, I don't know anything much at all about autism, which I accept will be a definite medical condition. Have I neglected something there? I will reply to your other post anon.
Paul
 
Posts: 512
Joined: 02 Aug 2011, 11:37
Location: Lancashire, England.

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